What do you all think of spanking vs punishment for kids. I was whipped when I was younger and when I was older. Some parents do not agree with it and think punishment is better.

Personally I think both are effective and it might vary by the child. What do you think about it? Some people even want to make it illegal which I think is taking it to far.

I see no problem with a spanking. That is a swat on the bottom,not a beating. I think it also depends on the offense and age. I feel little kids that are doing or about to do something dangerous need the swat. Other infractions require an appropriate punishment. I feel that punishment should be constructive. I would sometimes make my kids read an encyclopedia or dictionary for a period of time,out loud.. They are great at spelling, have an excellent vocabulary and quite knowledgeable now. Some times as in my Martial arts school they will perform an excercise. That goes for me too.

I hear stories of the old days when my pops and my dad told me of how they used to beat kids in school with a giant paddle. I was told the kids rears came off the ground with each hit. Plus the tales of the "large" bamboo pole for a switch in the closet from my dad.

I'm an old fart and can remember the fact that my father would make me feel guilty for what ever the offense was and then go make me look for "the belt" which was never in the same place. Granted I had three brothers which had it's effects not only on us kids but mother as well, but dad never took into consideration that mother had a right arm like a Greenbay Packer and could and often did deliver an effective right cross that would have made Rocky Graciano proud.

On a more serious note, there are some children that can be reached by talking to them, and then there are those that just plain need to know that they will be punished (within conventional reason) for their misdeeds.

On a side note...my younger brother wears a scar on his left eyebrow where he ducked one of mother's right crosses and struck his head on the corner of the kitchen counter, mom laid off for a short while after that one.

I am of two minds when it comes to this topic, because corporeal punishment can be abused by callow and stupid parents who are no better than brutes, and yet on the other hand, can also be one of a considered, effective, and consistently applied range of punishments by other parents or guardians who take the age of the child into account. In the best of all possible worlds, corporeal punishment would be unneeded; but we all recognise that this is the ideal and not actual practice.
Transitional now in many areas, society cannot clearly distinguish between obvious child abuse shown on the marks on the backs of children, and a mild spanking, and seems to want to err on the side of extreme caution by preventing both.
Z

If we saw a person whipping his child in public, most of us would instantly think it was horribly cruel and instantly intervene. So does whipping a child in private make it any better?

If we saw a person swatting the bum of their child in public for misbehaving, chances are most of us would be silently cheering.

Guess if we would be scared or ashamed of applying a particular physical punishment in public, we should surely refrain from doing it in our homes too?

Personally I see no problem with parents disciplining there kids at home (I have no kids of my own), and in public if really needed. it would be better these days if you simply took them home right there and then to give them their spankin (would give you a chance to cool off) but that wouldn't always be practical. I've gave my nephew a spankin once when he was 5(?) , just one swat , plus it was rather a suprise to him when it happened, which I think had more effect than the fairly light swat, and has done what I ask him to do every time now (he's 10). I got the "board of education" a few times in school (2-3) the last being High School , there was three of us (something about firecrackers in the hall and running across the grass ) and it was a custom built job , a two fister about 8 inches wide and the paddle part was 2 feet or so , with a series of 1 1/2" holes in it , we each got one whack , and if our feet didn't leave the floor they came close . of course 10 minutes later we was laughing about it , (but none of us ever ran or walked on the grass again ) I could tell you stories about my Dad, but "He's dead Jim" so I wont.

Beating and spanking are two different things. I would not butt in for a good whipping as if they parent were to do it in public I bet the kid needed it.

Then it's also okay to whip some elderly dependant on you adult that annoys the heck out of you, too?

What meazures of punishment that happens in the home,to these infants,we aren't aware of. In public, if a child is out of order,then Psychology should be used, and if that fails,either take them to the car and don't make a public spectacle,or as a last resort,I don't see any harm with a tap on the Butt or the hand.
Only once, I intervened and copped a tongue lashing as loud as she could to draw maximum public attention.
She hit this child about 2 yrs old across the side of the face,so hard, that it knocked him over.
I saw red and reminded her of the Childs age and I thought it was over the top.She said,mind your own F#$$$##$%%4 business,so I left it at that. I will not intervene again,just feel that some Mothers don't deserve children.

A "tap on the butt" yes, a slap(hit) hard enough across the face to knock the child down, Hell No. If I saw that around here I wouldn't hesitate to tell the cops as that's just out of control, and I would make sure she knew it. there is a big difference between a 2yo and even a 3yo in what they are able to comprehend as wrong, discipline needs to be kept a consistent level, it's inevitable that a child will push the boundaries (and your buttons) of what is acceptable, and if they can't react with out flying into a uncontrollable rage then they need to seek help, whether voluntary or court mandated. every time I hear of a parent, babysitter, friend, etc..., being arrested for "shaken baby syndrome" I wish for nothing more than "5 minutes alone" with them.(but I digress) In summary : a spanking (how firm depends on age) yes , after the age of lets say 6, there are more effective measures I believe, as in "no TV"(or vid games) , "no Bike" etc. (I like the making them read out loud part from boopme )

If a child is to learn correct behaviour, it seems to me that the kinds of punishment should be consistent either in public or in private, and that it should happen as soon as possible after the offence.
Z

Indeed yes, for if we wait an hour or two before punishing little ones I suspect they are much like our wee furry friends and simply forget why we're doing it and undoubtedly must think us twice as harsh, Zarathustra.

I admire you immensely for stepping in when the mother was whopping on her little one, DSTM - good for you! Yipeeeeeeeeee! And good for no one to agree that any slap hard enough to knock a wee one down crosses from punishment to abuse and can't be ignored.

Oh dear, I bet your poor mom still mentally cringes when she sees your brother's facial scar, dc3 - wonder how your siblings and you yourself feel about 'corporal' punishment. Gentle sigh.

Diapers are a great thing - the smack on the bum doesn't physically hurt as much as the indignity of it all and usually by the time a child begins school, for myself at least, the need to physically reprimand a child is pretty much over. From then on it's a much harder struggle to discipline when teaching children that we use words not fists or violence of any sort to settle disputes or misbehaviour.

I'm honestly struggling to understand and perhaps I misread the comment, "I would not butt in for a good whipping as if they parent were to do it in public I bet the kid needed it". Wonder at what age this would be acceptable, if any? I ask because while, I could be wrong, how do we teach older children respect both for themselves and others if a 'whipping' is acceptable, especially in public?

It depends on the child. Some kids are deterred more by physical punishment than a loss of privileges. I used to be spanked when I was a kid, but it didn't work nearly as well as removing my video game privileges. So my parents stopped spanking me and began restricting/grounding me from video games. I am also a full supporter of corporal punishment, even in schools and such. But it ultimately depends on what the child best responds to.

Corporal punishment of your small child in school? Who or which teacher would decide what warranted corporal punishment?

If the child misbehaves or is disruptive. I remember getting spanked with a paddle by the principle in elementary school when I was being a bad kid. I fully support it's use in schools.

I could be wrong but do wonder if you'll feel this same way when you have children, especially a wee girl who is heartbroken that someone hit her.

I see nothing at all wrong with a spanking.
Sometimes there is no other means in which to convey the lesson.
You only have to look at the children's behavior today to see that they lack discipline.
"Discipline" wether brought to bear from a parent, or discovered within oneself, it is the sole basis for one to aquire his personal goals!

I think it was Samuel Clemens who said: "it may only take a man and a woman to make a child, but it takes a society to raise them properly".

The children today are completely void of discipline and if you look at their behavior, it makes you wonder if society has given up on them. It's obvious that their parents don't give a damn.

Oh my wife just got home from work!!!
I AM OUT OF HERE!
Got to get my hugs! LOL
Seee you all later.


Love & Peace,
John

There's many a pro and con re spanking, but I think the very best form of punishment for misbehaviour in kiddies, is the Japanese method, or at least a method used by some Japanese firends of mine, some years ago... it is a simple "pinch" forefinger and thumb, pressure and duration commensurate wit the "crime", usualy on the behind.

When I think about it, it seems to be the best of a bad lot - no forceful 'hit', which can be very damaging, physically, emotionally and psychologically, no cause for someone to scream 'brutality', short and sharp, quickly administered and a definite 'wake up to yourself' pain! Oh yes, the type of punishment , in the event of continuing bad behaviour, was explained very clearly to the child right from the beginning. Just a thought....

Child Psychology,is an alternative to spanking, or indeed any sort of agressive behaviour by a Parent.
As a young boy growing up in the 1940's, I was beaten savagely by my parents,for the least little indiscretion,and swore I would never belt my children.
Instead I used Psychology,and taught my Children the negatives of adverse behavior. By applying time outs,incentives for good behavior.Also setting firm rational limits, and my boys are now married, with children of their own,and use Psychology on their Children. Children will normally behave badly, if they think they can get away with it. Children are smarter than we give them credit for. I am not in favour of any sort of punishment that inflicks pain.There are alternatives.

I'd like to point out my belief, both from observation and personal knowledge, that the most tangible of all punishments to a child is pain. Take away their privileges, they won't understand.

Also, while psychology is great on kids who can understand it, when a child is 2-3 or older, the best way to make them understand is through the use of corporal punishment. A good spanking on the behind, but of course nothing serious.

As stated before, I was disciplined with both when I was a kid, and I fully support corporal punishment.

On a side note, why not do both? Spank the child and tell them why they deserved it and what they should do instead.

With respect Solaris32,your 19 yrs old and what personal experience have you had,that you state?

It all depends on the temperment of the child. After all, some learn better through listening, seeing, or writing. It would make sense to assume some children would learn better behavior methods through corporal punishment and some through psychology. I believe to assume one is better over the other is a mistake.

Here in OZ,it's against the law to even smack your child, so Psychology is the only option left for us.A special number where any child or Adult can ring if they see anyone hit their child.When you get young Kids saying to their Mother or Father,"You hit me and you will be in Jail" the law has swung too far the opposite direction.
I have also read where a child is beaten, is likely to hit other children in say a Child care centre,and think it's the norm.
Also a Child that is beaten is more likely to beat their own Children.I have seen children hit their Mother back when smacked.
Take away a childs privilages,and they soon conform.

Let me see if I can make this comment without going on and on and on and on. LOL

I was an abused child. I took many severe beatings from: my father, my grandfathers (plural), some of my aunts and uncle's, and one good bout from my mom where she slapped me about the face and head so badly that "SHE" broke all the blood vessels in her hand.
At school teachers were allowed to paddle you, and my God, you didn't ever want to be sent tot the principle's office where you took the paddling behind closed doors.
In "boot camp" I once received eight stitches in my forehead as a result of a "D.I" who did't like the way I responded to his queery.

Now when I had my children, I made a vow to myself that they would never receive such discipline.
However they were subject to three swats with my hand on their butts should they cross a forbiden threshhold!
Both my children were 4.0 students throughout school, and my son is a successful contractor today. He's not rich, but he is my hero for what he has accomplished.

My grandson is at this time on his third father. 1. biological 2. my son 3. the guy his mom just married.
The boy's performance in school and his social interactions are now spiraling downward so his mother takes away privilages and games.
His behavior is getting worse by the day, and now his mother has taken away his and my sons visits as a punishment.
Resulting into a boy who has now turned violent.

So in my estimation, it's not corporal punishment, nor is it time out that are the answers.

I belive it falls squarely on the behavior of the parents that the kids learn most from!
Act like an "ass" and your children will do the same!

My son and I are as close as twin brothers. We talk to eachother everyday, somedays a number of times.
I have asked him the very question about my performance as a father and the spankings I administered.
His reply: " dad, it was never that you ever spanked us that it hurt" "it's was the explanation of why we were getting spanked that made us cry" " we were so sorry for what we did after your "lecture's" before the spanking that made us ashamed for failing to be as good as you dad"

Now it seems to me, that you must come to the proper mix of reaching your children on a per child basis

The scar's that remain on my legs, butt and mostly heart can attest to the wrongness of beatings.

But the words of my son to me show me that it's all about the way you explain the punishment of the child, that really makes the difference!!

Love & Peace,

John



P.S. Yes I know that is why I used drinking and drugs to escape my emotions, but I stopped because I wanted too and not because of anyones help or support, or any court ordered counseling.

I just got tired of blaming all the bad things that happened to me on what my parents did to me as a child. "JUST GOT TIRED OF FEELING SORRY FOR MYSELF"

No pats on the back please.

As I stated in an earlier post,John,You are a survivor and you should be proud of where you are today.
Yes,School wasn't the nicest place in those DAYS.I made many visits to the Headmasters office for my canning punishment.
I asked my 84yr old Mother,why she was so savage with her beatings,and she said,in those Days it was "Spare the rod and spoil the child" She said,look how you turned out,I'm proud of you. Enough said.
I think the main thing is, whatever type of punishment you choose,to be Consistent.Then the Child knows the boundaries.

Eh? I stated in the same post that I was spanked as a kid, doesn't that count as personal experience towards the question of whether one should implement corporal punishment on children?

EDIT: to unjustjohn: Not patting you on the back, but would like to say that was a very good post.

I think the real difference between parents who overuse violence and just beat their child, and those who rightfully impose corporal punishment, is anger. A cool headed parent can administer a memorable correction without serious harm. Dealt by a parent with anger problems, a life lesson can turn into a traumatic or even deadly event. But if parents have no "nuclear option", kids will and are running wild. The kids today are worse than disrespectful. I don't understand them at all any more, and I'm not that old. What I do know is I would have got my butt kicked for acting that way, and I would have deserved it. Those people who think pain is an unacceptable method of teaching are overlooking its superlative effectiveness. The best way to know not to play with fire is to burn yourself on the stove one day. The memory will remain. Life is hard, get a helmet. Kids need to learn that young, for their own good. It will save them pain in the long run.

Very observant of you DSTM. for some odd reason from the day I was born, I have always felt as though I was the same as the grown-ups.

Yes I too recall the message of my youth, " children should be seen and not heard!"

When visitors came, we made our polite little greetings, then got the hell! out of the adults way. Oh and God bless the kid, that might interupt the adult's conversation.

Many many times, I had no-idea why I was getting beat, mostly when my sibblings would point their finers at me and say, " Johnny did it!"

I put a stop to that violent cycle with my children, and boy does my chest swell when my son confirms my doing okay for him, and his sister.

Dear solaris,
That kind of compliment is certainly okay.
And thank you for it!

Your opinion counts for a lot to me with regards to anything about this subject matter heck, "your the person closest to memories of the pinishment! LOL

Oh yeah! don't forget to vote for me, if I should find a way to get my crippled butt out there to run for president in 2012. LOL

Thank you .

And I'll have to see about voting for you in 2012 lol.

I'll have to pipe in here and say while I do NOT approve of beating a child, it is nesessary at times (of course, depending on the child) to use the 'Hand of Knowledge to the Seat of Learning'.

This method of punishment is Ok till they reach the teen years, then we switch to the grounding or removal of items approach.

This is the way my parents brought me up. Oh I had my share of spankins, but nothing above the rear end, and nothing fierce, and I turn out just fine. *twitch, twitch* My husband was raised the other way however, with a very abusive father and I've seen the results - it's not pretty. He's been to counseling to deal with the fall out from that abuse. (that just about took an act of God to get him there, but it helped).

In short, no matter what the laws of the country say, as a parent it should be up to your observations of the personallity of your child as to which method works best for you and your child.

As to the don't spank your kid laws, I have about 7 passages marked in my Bible for just that occasion, if I ever get hauled into court for that one.
The rear end is a fair target as far as I'm concerned, its padded and covered in a diaper for the first 2 years, the face is off limits unless a filty word passes the lips, then its just a slight tap to the mouth.

They tell us over and over again not to use corporal punishment to teach our children BUT let your child so something wrong and you are held responsible in the way of fines or jail time. What do they want? Someone is going to get punished.

Ah the voice of reason!
Thanks for seeing the reasonable and only way to deal with correcting a child, or teaching them a lesson.
This was much better than Dr.Spock