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The Iraq War., Is George W Bush Right or Wrong?
Vicki
post Dec 2 2007, 11:57 AM
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To Gunner - Thank you for your service. As a former Marine, (served after Beirut) you know what you are getting into when you sign the contract. The military is a serious business and every person who enlists KNOWS there is always a possibility of seeing action. To all people who have never served, action is not always a declared war. Sometimes operations are performed to protect our country and the civies are never even aware that something happened.

Semper-fi

No one wants a war - sometimes there is no choice.

Let's see how everyone feels when more American lives are lost on American Soil. Or not to exclude all our friends abroad, insert your country's name where I put the word American.


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I Search for the Sjogren's Foundation,Who will you search for?
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Allan
post Dec 2 2007, 10:48 PM
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Wondering if you read and remember the contract you signed. The contract of old required the signer to take an oath. Did you take and oath and remember what it said?

Allan
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mommabear
post Dec 3 2007, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (0331gunner @ Nov 29 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Having served in Iraq during the opening stages of Operation Iraqi Freedom my opinion is fairly biased. That being said, I do believe that the war in Iraq was a necessary evil. Islamofacism in all its various forms must be confronted and destroyed. On 9/11 we experienced the effects of ignoring terrorism and the ideology behind it. There were 23 seperate reasons for America to attack and destroy the Hussien Regime. Congress read all of them and in turn voted to approve military action in Iraq.

Were mistakes made, yes aboslutely. Did the Admin and the Pentagon expect the Al Qaeda fueled insurgency, probably not. But that is the situation we now find ourselves in. We can not allow the Islamists to force us out, we can not bow to their tactics, and we can not leave the good Iraqi people to suffer under the extremists terror and intolerance.

Things are getting better in Iraq everyday. We are making headway, slowly but surely. Last weekend I attended a party for a family friend who volunteered to go to Iraq from retirement. He spoke very highly of Gen Petreas and his stragtegy for success. He said that things are going unbelievably well. Violence is down, civilian deaths are down and most importantly our troops deaths are down. We have to steel our resolve and allow our fine young men and women to complete the mission at hand.

Semper Fi

Just catching up in the Politics forum and trying to get used to people actually talking back and forth in a reasonable fashion, as opposed to a couple of other forums I post in. But a couple of sentences in this post caught my eye, so I guess it's as good a place as any to dip my feet in for the first time. I'm responding specifically to the part I have bolded.

Of all places to begin fighting "Islamofascism", Iraq wasn't it. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq, under the regime of Saddam (horrible as it was), kept the religious fanatics marginalized in Iraq.

The Administration was wrong to invade Iraq when it did, and use 9/11 to scare us into thinking it was necessary. Our war in Iraq has allowed the Islamic extremists to grow in a place where they once had very little influence, and now they are spreading that influence even more throughout the region.
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Allan
post Dec 3 2007, 08:11 AM
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For a fact the U.S. government's war, for Israel, in Iraq is a crime; it is a crime against mankind, the world, and every American.

It shames me that any American would applaud such a criminal action. Matter of fact no “American” would applaud it.

Allan
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0331gunner
post Dec 3 2007, 12:40 PM
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QUOTE (mommabear @ Dec 3 2007, 06:53 AM) *
Just catching up in the Politics forum and trying to get used to people actually talking back and forth in a reasonable fashion, as opposed to a couple of other forums I post in. But a couple of sentences in this post caught my eye, so I guess it's as good a place as any to dip my feet in for the first time. I'm responding specifically to the part I have bolded.

Of all places to begin fighting "Islamofascism", Iraq wasn't it. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq, under the regime of Saddam (horrible as it was), kept the religious fanatics marginalized in Iraq.

The Administration was wrong to invade Iraq when it did, and use 9/11 to scare us into thinking it was necessary. Our war in Iraq has allowed the Islamic extremists to grow in a place where they once had very little influence, and now they are spreading that influence even more throughout the region.


One of the "whereas" terms of the resolution to invade Iraq approved by Congress did in fact outline Al Qeada's presence in Iraq.
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mommabear
post Dec 3 2007, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE
One of the "whereas" terms of the resolution to invade Iraq approved by Congress did in fact outline Al Qeada's presence in Iraq.

Which was disproved, after the fact. Saddam had no use for Bin Laden or any religious zealots. That al Qaeda might have, more or less, passed through Iraq on a few occasions, meant nothing except for those who wanted war with Iraq.

Edit: Actually a lot of people tried to get the word out before the invasion that al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before we invaded. They were silenced, one way or another.

This post has been edited by mommabear: Dec 3 2007, 02:28 PM
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JohnWho
post Dec 3 2007, 03:09 PM
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mommabear -

I believe it was one of the reports (headed by David Kay?) that came out after Saddam was disposed regarding Iraq's WMD situation which pointed out that his regime really didn't have as great amount of control over his country that we thought, and the black market was flourishing. Any organization - terrorist or otherwise - could probably obtain any weapons they wanted.

So, even though Saddam didn't see eye-to-eye with bin Laden, the Al Qaeda folks could still obtain weapons in Iraq. It would be impossible to prove it either way at this point, but it is a reasonable assumption.

Hindsight is 20 - 20, as they say. In my opinion, if we knew then what we learned afterwards neither the Bush Administration nor the U. S. Congress would have pursued the course of action that we did. We would have kept the UN sanctions up while many Iraqis died of starvation and lack of medical care due to Saddam's lack of concern for his people while much of the liberal leaning media continued to blame the US for the deaths.


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Thaddox
post Dec 3 2007, 03:34 PM
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Yes, Bush is wrong... Not just about the Iraq war, but just about everything he has done...!!!
In an effort to show the rest of the world that the U.S. does not subscribe to tyrany, he (as well as Cheney) should be tried in the international community for war crimes...!!!
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JohnWho
post Dec 3 2007, 03:37 PM
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Well, except that they actually haven't committed any crimes, that's one plan.

The problem though is if we start convicting people of crimes even when they didn't commit any, how much better will we be than folks like Saddam Hussein were?

Just wonderin'.


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but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

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Thaddox
post Dec 3 2007, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (DSTM @ Nov 25 2007, 01:04 AM) *
Well Mr American,
The general consensus of the Australian people is that we shouldn't even be in Iracq,once Saddam was Captured.We are staunch Allies to America,and if we were being invaded,or you for that matter,we wouldn't think twice of helping in any way we could.However this is not the case, with this War,if you wish to call it that.We Voted out MR Howard,because he had lost touch with the will of The people, who voted him in.Wasn't only the Iracq issue,but other issues as well,which led to his demise.You should vote Bush out if you dont agree with his decisions.You should march in your thousands and protest if you dont agree with the government you elected.To lose roughly 4000 young Soldiers,as you have is terrible.That's someones Son or Father,or whatever.We feel here, it cant be won, when now it's amongst Ethnic Factions,and we should get the hell out of there.
Iran,or Turkey, has Troops massed on the Iracq border,and I fear America will be dragged into an escalating War,larger than seen in recent times.
What annoys me also is,when I read how your and our Returned Service Troops,are treated so discustingly when they return home.They are absolutely forgotten,when they should be rewarded for Risking their lives for each one of us.They are all heroes in my opinion. thumbup2.gif
For George Bush to say 'If you are not with us,then you are against us',is absolute crap.These are the Rantings of a Warmonger.IMO.

Quote.
""There is a real concern that, regardless of who wins the [U.S.] elections [in November], the United States is not up to fixing Iraq," Baran noted, adding there is also "fear that the U.S. is going to get involved militarily in Syria and Iran" in ways that could further destabilize the region".
End Quote.
Source. http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=3200


More accurately; An Oil Hungry Warmonger That has hurt our country (USA) more than all the combined efforts of all terrorist. No kidding, he's a real turd...
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mommabear
post Dec 3 2007, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE
JohnWho:
Hindsight is 20 - 20, as they say. In my opinion, if we knew then what we learned afterwards neither the Bush Administration nor the U. S. Congress would have pursued the course of action that we did. We would have kept the UN sanctions up while many Iraqis died of starvation and lack of medical care due to Saddam's lack of concern for his people while much of the liberal leaning media continued to blame the US for the deaths.

IMHO you are wrong about the Bush Administration and no war in hindsight. They knew full well what they were doing. They knew there were no WMD's. Saddam was cooperating with the inspectors. The last UN report mentioned a couple of non-critical areas in which there were a few bureaucratic administrative problems coordinating the inspections, but they anticipated those problems would be worked out satisfactorily. But Bush wouldn't wait so he pulled them out, remember?

Congress was wrong too. They were handed a bill of goods with all the contradictory information to the "intelligence" deliberately placed in foot notes...nobody reads the footnotes. They should have, but they didn't. But then you're supposed to trust your President. The problem was that this President had decided to go to war with Iraq even before he was President.

How many Iraqis have died in this war? How many Iraqis are dying now from disease and lack of food, water, shelter, etc because of the civil war going on now? Or maybe we should ask how many Iraqis would be alive and well today if we had given the UN just a little more time?
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Allan
post Dec 3 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (JohnWho @ Dec 3 2007, 02:37 PM) *
Well, except that they actually haven't committed any crimes, that's one plan.

The problem though is if we start convicting people of crimes even when they didn't commit any, how much better will we be than folks like Saddam Hussein were?

Just wonderin'.


USA Congress committed a crime by dishonoring the Oath of Office by not declaring war on Iraq before sending troops there.

Allan
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no one
post Dec 3 2007, 10:05 PM
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http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articl...17/170427.shtml
I suspect the main reason it hasn't been used against us yet is the fact that unless you know exactly what you're doing and have exactly the right equipment it will kill you before it does your intended target, Having been through some NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) Training I can tell you it's not as easy as you think to use and a lot harder to defend against. Iraq has been well documented in its use of Chemical warfare (he Didn't get the name " Chemical Ali " for no reason)


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"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster"
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0331gunner
post Dec 4 2007, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (Thaddox @ Dec 3 2007, 02:34 PM) *
Yes, Bush is wrong... Not just about the Iraq war, but just about everything he has done...!!!
In an effort to show the rest of the world that the U.S. does not subscribe to tyrany, he (as well as Cheney) should be tried in the international community for war crimes...!!!


hysterical.gif
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Thaddox
post Dec 4 2007, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (dc3 @ Nov 25 2007, 12:21 PM) *
As much as I deplore this unnecessary war in Iraq we are there. We have disrupted the way of life of these people and if we pull out without reestablishing stability then this situation could spin out of control and become a civil war. Like it or not we are stuck there for a while, even the democrats are realizing this even if they don't say this loudly. Thank you President Bush, your legacy will live on long after you are finally out of office.


LOL... Surely you jest... All kidding aside, it is fairly pompus of us to think we are the key to solving thier problems... They ALL resent us being there, really, we even resent us being there... The only ones they like killing more than each other, is outsiders, particuly Americans..!! Unless we start to subscribe to ethnic cleansing (namely, the Nation of Islam) we will be caught up in a war that is (quite frankly) none of our business.. There will always be religous extremist. We have our own religous extremist dictating policy right here in the us.. Believing in the idea that you can do anything you want, to other human beings, no matter how brutal, and still go to heaven, as long as you except "The Lord Jesus Christ" as your savior, isn't really a big stretch from believeing you get 17 virgins in the afterlife for killing the infedel... Let's face it, Theology is what prevents us from being effective in the East.. I don't see that changing over the next few hundred years.., If we all last that long...!! We just need to get the hell out NOW..!!
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