I guess to put it in a nutshell, I was answering mz30's question why God allows bad things to happen to His people esp children etc so I was specifically answering about Christians because mz30's question was about God's people. The non-believers' were really out of the picture. If certain Christians had been upset, I would understand but I wonder why non-believers are bombarding me. If you read Seacox's post carefully (again, nothing personal sir. I'm just trying to make a point), he is saying you choose where you go and God will send you where you have chosen. he further says that is why the good news is given - the Gospel. Isn't it obvious then that if this good news is not accepted, non-believers of Jesus/the gospel are going to hell . And mind you, Seacox stresses "eternally". No way out. Shouldn't that call for Zara, DSTM to say something because it applies to them? (Now I'm sure I'm going to get it from Zara, DSTM but wait a minute, I am just repeating what Seacox wrote). In my opinion, non believers can watch all the Bollywood they want, bow down to all the 8000 Hindu idols that exists and still have a great life. Why would Satan want to touch you here when he's already got you
in hell for eternity (okay, I just know I'm going to get it but if I read Seacox's post , isn't that what's being put across....the gospel is the good news and the way to heaven- so you make your choice - gospel is heaven, no gospel is hell eternity.

When you guys talk about hurt feelings, it does not hurt to have someone say that's why we have the good news (gospel) so we can get to heaven???Indirectly it's saying people like Matt is going to hell right? But I see no one saying anything to Seacox , probably because this hell story is so ancient, you've all gotten so used to it and in all probablity, don't believe it. The same here, if you don't believe what I wrote, why would it hurt that person? I had babies die in my family too. Am I going to write DSTM and tell him to soften up and not imply the babies and their souls and still in their graves andhave nowhere to go?? Well, that's probably the worst thing you could tell anyone compared to all I've said in all my posts.
But you don't see me doing that. In fact, a thread like this allow us to broaden our knowledge how different humans think about all aspects of religion. So I just found out some people think body and soul lies in the grave. That was interesting revelation, not hurting. I think some of you out there are just trying to catch anyone who goes overboard but this is not a normal forum/thread (why would you call it ThoughtVent then), so let everyone write freely unless it's a personal attack on another member. (Now, if someone said something now, I'd accept it cosI'd used names in this post but not all previous posts). Cheers

Hi michelle

As you where responding to my post ,i thought i would reply
I am sorry that you think the that the moderators are being unfair
So before i get back to the topic can i please echo zarathustra's post .




I cannot speak for the rest of the staff but i am guessing that they would have made them post's regardless of their position,please believe me when i say that we are a friendly community and enjoy reading and replying to all posts.

So with that out the way my question with religion has always sort of revolved around my relatives
(aunt and uncle to be precise)they are lovely people ,they go to church daily(i think),they go to the vatican twice yearly and live a very religious life,However my aunt has had both breast's removed due to cancer ,there son was murdered and the daughter nearly died of alcaholism,so can you tell me how these people who devote there lives to god can be struck with such bad luck?.

look forward to your reply

Hi mz30,

Nice to hear from you. I will try to be very very careful how I write so as not to offend you too....If I do, please know I just want to share my experiences and belief in my part of the world, it might not be true for anybody else. So whenever I post, though I believe in what I post, I am not implying "I'm right, you're wrong".


You said they go to the vatican? Are they Catholics? If they are, I can only speak from my bible when I say this - a person needs to be reborn to know jesus personally n understand Christianity in the spirit sense (not intellect) and catholics are not reborn. Reborn Christians (I think you call them protestants) in my part of the world (China,Spore, S E Asia, Korea) do not acknowledge Catholics as Christians (the west too even though they don't say it outloud ), so because I am a re-born Christian, I will follow their stand. Catholics in defense tell the world protestants exists because th England King needed to divorce and remarry. And our bibles are not complete, and we are not the "original authentic" Christians that they are and we don't hit back except to tell them to be re-born. So anybody, please don't hit on me. With that, I am unable to answer your questions mz30, but may I further share my opinion below.....


Going to church everyday doesn't necessarilly mean one is having close communion with God. Taking H/Comm every week doesn't mean u r having a personal relationship with Jesus.
( Smile)....visiting the vatican doesn't make a person more religious (how different is this from the Muslims and mecca then). Pushing and shoving and rushing and saving all your hard earned $ to shake the Pope's hand doesn't give you more blessings (it only boosts the ego, doesn't it?- being able to tell one's neighbours and the whole workplace one shook the pope's hand.) A true Christian will realise the Pope is just like you and me.....people have set him high, not God. he is not to be exalted (just my opinion). So mz30, you can't look at a nice church going person and say he/she is religious. I mean, how do you know what went behind closed doors and minds - only God does and sometimes he reveals His own people's sins out (like evangelists n worship singers etc) . My dad did all the above but had a nude magazine in his workbag everyday. My religious Catholic hairsylist does all these but fantazies about sex with his lady boss and another devout all covered up Catholic friend imagines sex with pakistan's cricket players.
The diffrence would be, a re-born will know it is wrong in God's eye, a non-reborn can't see what the big deal is. "Just imagine you know, not real..." that's what I hear.
I'd say another difference would be (my opinion again) the reborn just knows and knows and knows what the Bible says is true and the other just believes till something shakes them up. My Catholic maint officer played a joke in the catholic church after xmas Mass. he ran to the hospitality room and announced to everyone "actually jesus never raised from the dead. he really died!!" EVERYONE started to convey this new found revelation to everyone else on other floors, nobody stoppedto question. Very funny (even I laughed hard) but very very sad isn't it. (if you get it. I suppose Seacox n CrazyDwarf get what I mean).

My mother was Catholic, she died in a road accident. She went to church everyday, never missed Sunday, very religious....but you know what, when I was reborn I realised she was no different from any other religion - RITUALS RITUALS RITUALS. She never sat on her sofa to talk to chit chat to God, she never shared a joke with God, she never waited upon Him to answer her, she just never knew Him as her friend and she most certainly didn't know the Holy Spirit as a real person. It was sad with all her "religion" (like all her Catholic community), she never met God in the real sense. He was just a "God" that needed to be respected and could grant you wishes thru Novenas and forgive sins thru the correct numbers of Our father and Hail Mary recited. That was her life in the religion sense. And I think if you told her the above, she'd have believed!


Doing these things don't make one a Christian mz30. You can just go to church weekly or monthly and if you're in communion with god everyday, now that's Christianity. You know, feeling the Holy Spirit , having God speak to you (you hear but it's not audible).

On another note, if your cousin nearly died ond alcoholism, if she had read the bible and understood it even in the literal sense, it says we are to be caution not to get drunk and even says "drunkards go to hell". A re-born will drink and restrain or not drink at all if he can't handle it. I go to Catholic funerals of drunks that died and there is a constant assurance from the priest the deceased is in heaven. I go to potestant churches and they say the bible say "......(I think u know what) but Jesus is the ultimate judge". Just sharing the bible should be read and obeyed. Most certainly not commenting on your cousin.

I am sorry to hear about your cousin who was murdered. I wish my mum was a re-born Christian who knew how to biblicly (think spelling wrong) apply God's protection when she went out of her home. I sure your cousin didn't either.

mz30, you asked for proof that Satan exists? Do you really believe there's no Satan? I was not a Christian all my life you know (only 6 yrs actually), and like all Aseans, was heavy int the occult/charms /etc. I tell you there is a guaranteed method he will appear before you .... it is very very difficult to shake him off once invited. Anyway, a Myammar/ietnam black magic priest came to speak at our church. He is now a Christian ad evangelist thru his testimony. Hhis story is interesting (nothing heavy, quite funny). If you like, I can post you a vcd of it and some others but I will need your address. Smile.

Finally, Im so sorry to anyone if anything I've written is out of line....

Not to me it isn't, since "hell", "heaven", "God" and "Satan" all have one thing in common - they don't exist.

So I'm "doomed" to a fairy-tale. Ask me how much that bothers me.

We must try to remember that English is her third language. So what she writes may not always be exactly what she is trying to say.

I am truly sorry that your Mom has died, Michelle.

Your reply sounds like it isn't obvious that that is what Seacox is saying (isn't that what Matt is saying, anyone?) )In that case in my opinion (so you can't hit me He He) your ability to grasp what people say is poor. I was in a blunt way what Seacox meant, what has it got to do with your not believing God exists. You need to read my post in full context.

This post has been edited by blackspyder: Oct 25 2007, 09:59 PM

See what I mean everyone, that was what Seacox said right , but nobody said anything. You mean just because Seacox didn't put your name in, you actually thought he meant you'e going to heaven?

I noe realise is thread is all about say what's in your mind but say "indirectly" so even if it means what it means, eveyone makes "don't know" . But if you word it straight to the point (still, with the same meaning), that's not acceptable.

Either that or Matt, you are not getting my point at all about my post on Seacox post. I was talking about being hit you know, I wasn't talking about heaven hell god exist etcetc when I mentioned Seacox.

Smile....well, I do have a Cambridge London degree you know. I speak 11 languages and write in 5. I probably write real fast here so I admit to many grammer and mistyped words. My apologies. (I'm also reading and typing without my contact lenses the past week, so life is a bit difficult when you're "partially" blind)

What I wrote is what I meant to say. Obviously you can't grasp my meaning taling into consideration in your 2nd last and 3last posts, you are replying to my post about God existing when the post was an example (Seacox's post) presented to enquire what such a heavy statement as that is not hit upon. put forwardYou just can't grasp the meaning. Matt, I'm laying this down. I've seen how Dwarf explains things to you and how you turn and twist him all around till he need to explains what he exactly means...I'm not falling for that dear. Cheers

I don't always follow multiple-quote posts very well. Especially when it's late. Which is about the only time I have when I can be reasonably sure of not being interrupted or distracted. Although it doesn't really matter, since my response to the question doesn't change, no matter who is saying or paraphrasing it.

Thks Mara, you are so kind.

No, not at all. Any promises of "heaven" or threats of "hell" are wasted on me, since I know that neither exist.

You seem to be feeling somewhat persecuted, and I don't believe that that was anyone's intent. That's why I posted the reminder to people that your use of English may not always convey quite what you meant it to. Coming to your defense, as it were.

Sorry. Won't do it again.

Michelle, for Protestants to deny that Catholics are Christians is impossible. To deny the reality of the base religion is to deny the reality of its sub sects. Aside from that we (Christians) must learn that its not the few who have accecpted Christ as Savior who are seen as Christians its every Bible thumping drunken hobo,and The Bakers and Jim Jones's of the world who share this label (whether rightly or wrongly, its not my call)

And I shall tell you this. When people make claims that they can't back up, or that fly in the face of proven fact, or insist that their way is the only way, simply because they say it is, I will stand in opposition to them. Especially the arrogant ones that have all the answers because they say they do.

Now, shocking as this may be to you, I've had some good exchanges with a few of my "adversaries" through the use of PMs. I've come to a little better understanding of them and, hopefully, they of me. If you really want to have a discussion, rather than continue in an arena-style free-for-all, my door's always open.