Get Out of Russia's Face! |
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Get Out of Russia's Face! |
Aug 16 2008, 08:01 PM
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#1
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Venter ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 248 |
At the risk of repeating myself I want to stress again that Georgia and its idiot President is the one responsible for starting this current war with Russia. Georgia attacked and killed innocent Russian men, women, and children living in South Ossetia. The Georgian military with arms purchased from the United States and Israel shot at and killed Russian peacekeepers serving in South Ossetia. In this case Georgia and its moron President are the aggressors, and not Putin and the Russians.
Second, it is absolutely of no consequence to the lives or liberties of the people of the United States if Russia annexes South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The so called territorial integrity of Georgia is not worth the life of one American soldier to say nothing of risking a shooting war with Russia. The United States government needs to get out of Russia's face. NATO should be disbanded (it should have been disbanded after the demise of the Soviet Union and the termination of the Warsaw Pact) Under no circumstances should the United States government give any war guarantee to any former Republic of the Soviet Union or any former member of the Warsaw Pact. The United States should terminate its plan to build an absolutely worthless missle defense system in Poland and the Chezk Republic. The number one priority of the United States government should be to have good relations with Russia. In order to have good relations with Russia the United States government needs to start treating the concerns of Russia with respect. The United States government has no business interfering in Russia's near abroad in the Caucuses just as the Russian government has no business interfering in South or Central America. What if Russia were to start building an antimissle defense system in Cuba? What if Russia were to start training and selling sophisticated weapons systems to Chavez and the Venzuelan military? What if the Russians were to support a takeover of the Mexican government that was actively hostile to the interests of the United States. Would the United States government for one second tolerate such behavior on the part of the Russians? Is there and doubt that the super nationalist on this forum would consider such actions by the Russian government as hostile acts and a serious provocation. The United States government is playing a very dangerous game with the Russians. It is a game that promises very few benefits to the American people and might very well lead to a nuclear war with Russia over some dumbass incident in the Caucuses. There are some very evil people in the United States (the list would include Randy Scheuneman, William Krystal, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, John McCain, Joe Lieberman, John Bolton, Richard Pearle, George Bush, and Dick Cheney) who are interested in restarting a cold war with Russia as an excuse to further increase the already obscene amount of money spent on "defense" by the United States government. These people are willing to risk nuclear war with Russia just so they can channel more profits to thier good time buddies in the military industrial complex, or give themselves some enemy to rant against on 24 hour hawk radio. |
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Aug 17 2008, 07:13 PM
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#2
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![]() Who's your Daddy? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 2,224 Joined: 13-August 07 From: Tampa Bay Area, Florida, USA Member No.: 11 |
Yeah, Russia is a lovely place with the greatest government and the most scrupulous politicians in the world.
Too bad we all can't be Russians. -------------------- |
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Aug 17 2008, 11:40 PM
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#3
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Venter ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 248 |
Yeah, Russia is a lovely place with the greatest government and the most scrupulous politicians in the world. Too bad we all can't be Russians. I have reread my post and I cannot find anywhere in that post where I assert that Russia has the greatest government in world. In fact, I consider myself a no government person. I think the best type of government would be no government at all. Government has been and is the focus of all evil in the world. R.J Rummel in his book, Death by Government, estimates that there were 10 governments in the 20th Century alone that were responsible for the murder of over one million innocent people. This is mass murder on such a massive scale that he coined a new term for it, Democide. Near the top of that list, only Communist China under Mao was responsible for the deaths of more innocent people, was the former Soviet Union. So I have no blinders on when it comes to omnipotent government, or the ghastly and inhuman crimes the Russian government has commited in the past. Having said this, however, a few things need to be realized. First, the Russians peacefully gave up thier empire in the early 90s. A promise was then given to the Russians that if they gave up thier empire peacefully no attempt would be made to incorporate former Soviet Republics or former members of the Warsaw Pact into NATO. In fact NATO was formed as a counter to Soviet expansionism and the Warsaw Pact, and should have been disbanded after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the disbandment of the Warsaw Pact. NATO, however, was not disbanded and soon former members of the Warsaw Pact were included in NATO, and a recent attempt was made to have NATO expand all the way up to the borders of Russia with the incorporation of the Ukraine and Georgia. Second, Putin is not Stalin or any other former leader of the Soviet Union. Under Putin the Russians are more free and more prosperous than they were ten years ago, which is more than I can say for the people of the United States who have had to suffer under the misleadership of Bush for going on 8 years. Third, I think the facts in this case speak for themselves. It was Georgia, not Russia that first resorted to the use of force. Again I think there is a very important distinction to be made between those who use force first and those who respond to the use force. Georgia started this war and Russia will decide when it ends. It is not up to those who start wars to decide when they are finished. If Putin makes the decision to use this war as an excuse to dish out a little extra punishment to Georgia, then so be it. Finally, and I will repeat this again because I think it is very important, Georgia is absolutely of no importance to the lives or liberties of the American people. If Russia were to wipe Georgia off the face of the earth it would probably make no difference to the lives of ordinary Americans. There is no way the United States government should allow a nothing country like Georgia to drag the people of the United States into a shooting war with Russia. Americans did fine and even prospered while Georgia was a part of the Russian empire. The same goes for all former members of the Warsaw Pact, the Baltic Republics, and any other former Soviet Socialist Republic. I would like you to anwser the following questions: How many Americans soldiers are you willing to see killed to defend Tiblisi and preserve the geographical integrity of Georgia? Are you willing to lose everything you value, your life and your family, to protect the independence of the Baltic Republics or Poland? Are you willing to risk nuclear war with Russia over countries that are of absolutely no strategic importance to the people of the United States? Remember, Americans did just fine when Poland, the Baltic Republics, and the former Republics of the Soviet Union were under the thumb of the Russians. As for me, I would not trade the life of my dog to preserve the geographical integrity of Georgia, and to force the South Ossetians and Abkhazians to live under the government of a country they hate. As happy as I am for the independence of the people of Poland and the people of the Baltic Republics I do not think preserving thier independence is worth risking the nuclear incineration of New York, Boston, Nashville, or San Diego. The United States government should conduct a foriegn policy that puts the lives and liberties of the American people first. It should not give war guarantees to countries like Poland and the Baltic Republics that are of zero stategic importance to the people of the United States. |
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Aug 20 2008, 07:49 AM
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#4
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Junior Venter ![]() Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 4-August 08 From: Huntington Beach, California Member No.: 436 |
Wow, there is a lot of angst in this topic. But as much of the big picture is being seen by your eyes. I think there is some smaller detail getting by you. Such as Russia gaining more territory, as well as China gaining more of our economy. And strangely enough Russia and China are good bedfellows and they both hate the U.S. So is it possible that Our government even though its greatly flawed is aware that they need to keep these two super powers from becoming greater super powers then the U.S so that they DON'T get a foot hold on Mexico or South America. I get that Bush and Cheny have turned this government into their own little piggy bank while screwing the rest their fellow americans, but I hope that in the huge picture of all this planets governments ours is keeping an eye out for all possibilities.
Take WW1 and WW2 for instance these wars were less then a hundred years ago which means they are still very fresh in the minds of those citizens and governments. Everybody is stronger then they were in those days, so the likely event of a WW3 is even more prevalent since we are not everybody's favorite State. Yes our President started a war under false pretense, but we voted him into office, Twice. The great thing about our country is that if you think you can run it better then damn it get up off your ass and do it cause we need you to. |
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