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Myth of Global Warming Consensus Explodes...
JohnWho
post Jul 17 2008, 09:27 PM
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Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

From the article:
QUOTE
The American Physical Society, an organization representing nearly 50,000 physicists, has reversed its stance on climate change and is now proclaiming that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming.


And this, from the American Physical Society site

QUOTE
With this issue of Physics & Society, we kick off a debate concerning one of the main conclusions of the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the UN body which, together with Al Gore, recently won the Nobel Prize for its work concerning climate change research. There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution.


(bold mine.)

This is part of the reason why I've said that all the scientists do not agree. "All the scientists" would be world-wide, since we are talking about a global concept, and in America alone we have an organization of 50,000 physicists that expresses some level of disagreement or concern.

At least this group is willing to participate in debate.

Is it not also worth noting that recently both India and China rejected the Global Warming by Anthropogenic CO2 emissions hypothesis?

All the facts are not in, all the scientists do not agree, and the debate is not over.


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I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

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JohnWho
post Jul 18 2008, 02:54 PM
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And this:

No smoking hot spot

From the article:

QUOTE
I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.

FullCAM models carbon flows in plants, mulch, debris, soils and agricultural products, using inputs such as climate data, plant physiology and satellite data. I've been following the global warming debate closely for years.

When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty good: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the old ice core data, no other suspects.

The evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we were certain when it appeared we needed to act quickly? Soon government and the scientific community were working together and lots of science research jobs were created. We scientists had political support, the ear of government, big budgets, and we felt fairly important and useful (well, I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the planet.

But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"


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I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

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Mara
post Jul 18 2008, 08:30 PM
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Good article, John, and I read it with interest.

Still am personally undecided - but then again, whether there 'is' or 'isn't' doesn't honestly make much difference. Sounds odd perhaps, but one can simply do the best he or she can with trying to keep our changes as minimal as possible for the future generations. We can't change the world (i.e. China's massive pollution) but we can each mind our 'own back yard', surely.

(Since this thread started I've started to use shredded newspapers as mulch - and switched to waxed paper (versus Saran wrap) as much as possible, etc - all little things, I know).



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JohnWho
post Jul 18 2008, 09:51 PM
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The main thing is the question about whether global warming is being caused by man's CO2 emissions, Mara.

While "all the facts aren't in", even so, to consider CO2 a pollutant and change the way people live, does not make sense at this time.

They (the folks promoting the AGW by CO2 philosophy), want us to move on this even though it has not been proved to be a problem. While we expend billions of dollars on this, we lose time (and that money) that could (I would say "should") be being expended on other projects.

More and more scientists are willing to speak out against the "false science" of global warming (or cooling) being caused by such small increases in the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, as you can see.

Maybe we are reaching a turning point where real science can step in and provide us with a better understanding regarding whether anything that we do can have any effect on the climate - either warming or cooling.

Right now, I am not convinced that our CO2 emissions are having anything other than a very minor (barely measurable) effect on global climate either cooling or warming. I don't even believe that the evidence is even enough to support the "better be safe than sorry" attitude of some. At this point it seems more like "there is no cause for alarm, you do not have to hold your breath (we exhale CO2, you know)".


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I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

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KingOfIdiocy
post Jul 25 2008, 05:12 PM
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I did not read the article but have believed for a while now that global warming is mainly natural.

Their is supposed to be evidence that it has been happening for thousands of years, but humans have speeded it up a little recently.

The solution to the ozone lair problem has already been made clear in 'Red Dwarf'. A giant toupee.
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JohnWho
post Aug 20 2008, 02:58 PM
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All that most "skeptics" want regarding AGW by CO2 is that a good, open, honest presentation of climate change facts be presented and debated.

Let's get it right.

This seems to be a step in the right direction:

Global Warming Skeptics Prominently Featured At International Scientific Meeting.

QUOTE
Another scientist stood up to a key question about the recent global cooling trend.

"We know temperature goes up and down, we know there is tremendous amount of natural variations, but for how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand -- we politicians and scientists-- that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" the scientist asked to applause from the audience.


clapping.gif

This post has been edited by JohnWho: Aug 20 2008, 03:01 PM


--------------------

I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

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Conundrum
post Aug 20 2008, 07:10 PM
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Debate on the subject is a good thing of course. Maybe we'll debate out an answer?

I believe it's all the fault of tobacco smokers now. [Especially since I've quit! - REALIZE this is poor humo(u)r]


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The only easy day was yesterday....
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