If the child misbehaves or is disruptive. I remember getting spanked with a paddle by the principle in elementary school when I was being a bad kid. I fully support it's use in schools.

I could be wrong but do wonder if you'll feel this same way when you have children, especially a wee girl who is heartbroken that someone hit her.

I see nothing at all wrong with a spanking.
Sometimes there is no other means in which to convey the lesson.
You only have to look at the children's behavior today to see that they lack discipline.
"Discipline" wether brought to bear from a parent, or discovered within oneself, it is the sole basis for one to aquire his personal goals!

I think it was Samuel Clemens who said: "it may only take a man and a woman to make a child, but it takes a society to raise them properly".

The children today are completely void of discipline and if you look at their behavior, it makes you wonder if society has given up on them. It's obvious that their parents don't give a damn.

Oh my wife just got home from work!!!
I AM OUT OF HERE!
Got to get my hugs! LOL
Seee you all later.


Love & Peace,
John

There's many a pro and con re spanking, but I think the very best form of punishment for misbehaviour in kiddies, is the Japanese method, or at least a method used by some Japanese firends of mine, some years ago... it is a simple "pinch" forefinger and thumb, pressure and duration commensurate wit the "crime", usualy on the behind.

When I think about it, it seems to be the best of a bad lot - no forceful 'hit', which can be very damaging, physically, emotionally and psychologically, no cause for someone to scream 'brutality', short and sharp, quickly administered and a definite 'wake up to yourself' pain! Oh yes, the type of punishment , in the event of continuing bad behaviour, was explained very clearly to the child right from the beginning. Just a thought....

Child Psychology,is an alternative to spanking, or indeed any sort of agressive behaviour by a Parent.
As a young boy growing up in the 1940's, I was beaten savagely by my parents,for the least little indiscretion,and swore I would never belt my children.
Instead I used Psychology,and taught my Children the negatives of adverse behavior. By applying time outs,incentives for good behavior.Also setting firm rational limits, and my boys are now married, with children of their own,and use Psychology on their Children. Children will normally behave badly, if they think they can get away with it. Children are smarter than we give them credit for. I am not in favour of any sort of punishment that inflicks pain.There are alternatives.

This post has been edited by DSTM: Feb 22 2008, 05:43 AM

I'd like to point out my belief, both from observation and personal knowledge, that the most tangible of all punishments to a child is pain. Take away their privileges, they won't understand.

Also, while psychology is great on kids who can understand it, when a child is 2-3 or older, the best way to make them understand is through the use of corporal punishment. A good spanking on the behind, but of course nothing serious.

As stated before, I was disciplined with both when I was a kid, and I fully support corporal punishment.

On a side note, why not do both? Spank the child and tell them why they deserved it and what they should do instead.

With respect Solaris32,your 19 yrs old and what personal experience have you had,that you state?

It all depends on the temperment of the child. After all, some learn better through listening, seeing, or writing. It would make sense to assume some children would learn better behavior methods through corporal punishment and some through psychology. I believe to assume one is better over the other is a mistake.

Here in OZ,it's against the law to even smack your child, so Psychology is the only option left for us.A special number where any child or Adult can ring if they see anyone hit their child.When you get young Kids saying to their Mother or Father,"You hit me and you will be in Jail" the law has swung too far the opposite direction.
I have also read where a child is beaten, is likely to hit other children in say a Child care centre,and think it's the norm.
Also a Child that is beaten is more likely to beat their own Children.I have seen children hit their Mother back when smacked.
Take away a childs privilages,and they soon conform.

Let me see if I can make this comment without going on and on and on and on. LOL

I was an abused child. I took many severe beatings from: my father, my grandfathers (plural), some of my aunts and uncle's, and one good bout from my mom where she slapped me about the face and head so badly that "SHE" broke all the blood vessels in her hand.
At school teachers were allowed to paddle you, and my God, you didn't ever want to be sent tot the principle's office where you took the paddling behind closed doors.
In "boot camp" I once received eight stitches in my forehead as a result of a "D.I" who did't like the way I responded to his queery.

Now when I had my children, I made a vow to myself that they would never receive such discipline.
However they were subject to three swats with my hand on their butts should they cross a forbiden threshhold!
Both my children were 4.0 students throughout school, and my son is a successful contractor today. He's not rich, but he is my hero for what he has accomplished.

My grandson is at this time on his third father. 1. biological 2. my son 3. the guy his mom just married.
The boy's performance in school and his social interactions are now spiraling downward so his mother takes away privilages and games.
His behavior is getting worse by the day, and now his mother has taken away his and my sons visits as a punishment.
Resulting into a boy who has now turned violent.

So in my estimation, it's not corporal punishment, nor is it time out that are the answers.

I belive it falls squarely on the behavior of the parents that the kids learn most from!
Act like an "ass" and your children will do the same!

My son and I are as close as twin brothers. We talk to eachother everyday, somedays a number of times.
I have asked him the very question about my performance as a father and the spankings I administered.
His reply: " dad, it was never that you ever spanked us that it hurt" "it's was the explanation of why we were getting spanked that made us cry" " we were so sorry for what we did after your "lecture's" before the spanking that made us ashamed for failing to be as good as you dad"

Now it seems to me, that you must come to the proper mix of reaching your children on a per child basis

The scar's that remain on my legs, butt and mostly heart can attest to the wrongness of beatings.

But the words of my son to me show me that it's all about the way you explain the punishment of the child, that really makes the difference!!

Love & Peace,

John



P.S. Yes I know that is why I used drinking and drugs to escape my emotions, but I stopped because I wanted too and not because of anyones help or support, or any court ordered counseling.

I just got tired of blaming all the bad things that happened to me on what my parents did to me as a child. "JUST GOT TIRED OF FEELING SORRY FOR MYSELF"

No pats on the back please.

As I stated in an earlier post,John,You are a survivor and you should be proud of where you are today.
Yes,School wasn't the nicest place in those DAYS.I made many visits to the Headmasters office for my canning punishment.
I asked my 84yr old Mother,why she was so savage with her beatings,and she said,in those Days it was "Spare the rod and spoil the child" She said,look how you turned out,I'm proud of you. Enough said.
I think the main thing is, whatever type of punishment you choose,to be Consistent.Then the Child knows the boundaries.

Eh? I stated in the same post that I was spanked as a kid, doesn't that count as personal experience towards the question of whether one should implement corporal punishment on children?

EDIT: to unjustjohn: Not patting you on the back, but would like to say that was a very good post.

This post has been edited by solaris32: Feb 22 2008, 10:42 PM

I think the real difference between parents who overuse violence and just beat their child, and those who rightfully impose corporal punishment, is anger. A cool headed parent can administer a memorable correction without serious harm. Dealt by a parent with anger problems, a life lesson can turn into a traumatic or even deadly event. But if parents have no "nuclear option", kids will and are running wild. The kids today are worse than disrespectful. I don't understand them at all any more, and I'm not that old. What I do know is I would have got my butt kicked for acting that way, and I would have deserved it. Those people who think pain is an unacceptable method of teaching are overlooking its superlative effectiveness. The best way to know not to play with fire is to burn yourself on the stove one day. The memory will remain. Life is hard, get a helmet. Kids need to learn that young, for their own good. It will save them pain in the long run.

Very observant of you DSTM. for some odd reason from the day I was born, I have always felt as though I was the same as the grown-ups.

Yes I too recall the message of my youth, " children should be seen and not heard!"

When visitors came, we made our polite little greetings, then got the hell! out of the adults way. Oh and God bless the kid, that might interupt the adult's conversation.

Many many times, I had no-idea why I was getting beat, mostly when my sibblings would point their finers at me and say, " Johnny did it!"

I put a stop to that violent cycle with my children, and boy does my chest swell when my son confirms my doing okay for him, and his sister.

Dear solaris,
That kind of compliment is certainly okay.
And thank you for it!

Your opinion counts for a lot to me with regards to anything about this subject matter heck, "your the person closest to memories of the pinishment! LOL

Oh yeah! don't forget to vote for me, if I should find a way to get my crippled butt out there to run for president in 2012. LOL