If it's any consultation, I would view you as a Christian and a gently religous person - lovely! I can only imagine how difficult it was to become sober and stay sober and I join Vicki in commending you with your battle as an alcholic - good for you!

I may be wrong here, but I would think there is a comparison between Jesus Freaks and addiction.
Or perhaps one can say that JFs are as they are as much for show as go; it is as if they had to prove to themselves and others how religious they are by making every action and word into a religious statement, and always "in your face."
Or (at the extreme) it might be an example of Sartrean "bad faith" in that the individual has chosen to BE one role and only that one role to the exclusion (and denial) of any other possibilities. One costume never taken off, even when alone.
Z

How right you are 'Z'. I think religion over a period of time becomes to many,an addiction. My Parents who are in their 80's have spent their whole waking life talking about nothing else but God,God,God. Daily they spend hours listening to TV evangelists.Every time someone gets Cancer,dies,car accident,anything,it's allways God's will. When my little sister died at 11 months,the first thing that came out of my Mothers mouth was,"IT's OK it's God's will" To me I feel sorry for them, that what was a religious belief, has turned into a complete Addiction. They become so addicted and brainwashed,that nothing else in life matters.

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds comparing people who dedicate there life to GOD to someone
battling addiction. Unless you have given your life to faith and/or struggled with addiction, How would
you know??

You athiest or people who don't have faith in anything but man, stand in judgment of people who do.

That's exactly what you athiest do to people of faith usually christians. {stand in judgment}

That's called a hypocrite.

I have a right to tell my Parents that they are wasting the last years of their life.
I follow Christian principals, but not so narrow minded as some Zealots that my ears touch.
There is absolutely no proof or facts available that God even exists.It's only a fantasy of you own imagination.
Do you know what Heaven is even like? No, your imagining it's this wonderful place.
I am not a hypocrite,just someone that requires proof to believe.

This post has been edited by DSTM: Jan 31 2008, 09:57 AM

jbeau, I can see both points being made, by both you and DSTM. I don't believe a a judgement was being made. I had opened the door with the Jesus Freaks comment.

I'm sorry to say I know some "Jesus Freaks" and they are a little different than "regular" Christians. Not bad, not good, just different. Jesus becomes not just a shield, but a weapon. Yes, one wants to live in the Lord! Yes, one wants to praise His holy name! What becomes the problem is when it is done, to the exclusion of all else.

"This is the day the that the Lord has made, rejoice and be excedingly glad"

You can't do what the Lord wants us to do, if your beating yourself up (or others) with Him.

To be a hypocrite means that one puts on a false appearance or purposely disguise oneself-as-one-really-is, or acts contrary to one's true beliefs. I fail to see how making an observation that some Christians (i.e., "Jesus Freaks") take their religious beliefs to a morbid and pyschologically unheathly extreme akin to addiction either qualifies one as being hypocritical or, heaven forbid, an atheist.
I would hope that readers would not take remarks directed at a small subset of Christians to include all Christians.
Z

I will clarify what I meant by Addiction.A person who over indulges in anything,it can be classed as an Addiction.
Haven't you ever heard the expression,somebody is addicted to Poker machines,love,food, football,etc etc,so why is it such a big problem for you, if I class my Parents as having an addiction for Religion,if they think about nothing else,except Religion from the moment they wake up till they go to sleep.I cant say one sentance on the phone to them, before I get a Bible lesson,guaranteed.Seriously to me this is over, and above the accepted norm,so to me it is an unhealthy Addiction.
So please explain how I can be classed as a hypocrite?

All this God garbage is a load of old horse %&@!#!.
He doesn't exist.

That's all well and good - It's your perfect right to believe so. But you don't need to be disrespectful of what other people believe. That's our right also.

We tend to have these sort of debate's quite often and while myself personally like to keep my distance from religious thread's i find myself compelled to get involved in this one.

To start with a bit of my backstory:
I was christened catholic at the tender age of 18 month's,my parent's were both catholic from very religious familie's,although they never forced there belief's upon me .
I was of course sent to a catholic infant and junior school and was given the choice of which catholic senior school(high school) i should attend.
I chose wrong!

As i grew older i became more and more aware of the catholic religion and what it meant,and through discussion's with other catholic family member's began to draw my own conclusion's ,eventually settling on my own belief system(which i still hold today).

In my late twentie's after numerous relationship's i found the girl i wanted to spend the rest of my life with,religion was not an issue ,after a few year's of courting we decided to marry and had a beautiful daughter ,my wife and i decided that she was to be christened in my wife's church (church of england)and that she should not go to a catholic school when old enough.

Now to my point :
Can you believe in god and not be religious?:
Probably as life issue's will alway's dictate the course of your exsistence.

Can you be religious and not believe in god?
Definetly,
I religiously work so i have money to provide for my family,god does not put food on my familie's plate.
I religiously dote on my daughter and wife ,god does not.
I religiously employ many people (mostly friend's),god does not
I religiously try my best to live a good life ,god does not do that for me
and finally
I religiously try to take people as i find them despite race,religion,colour or creed,god does not force me to do that that is my belief's.

In closing i would like to say ,if you believe in god then respect to you ,if you have no time for god also respect to you.
At the end of the day when the time to leave this earth come's someone is going to be right and someone will be wrong ,but while we are here should we not just all get along.

Dear Invisible,
Question #1
Nope, it is my personal view that you do not have to be of any faith to believe in God.
Question #2
This is probably going to upset almost all of the other people who post here and you, but here goes.
I AM GOD!!!
YOU ARE GOD!!!
ALL OF US TOGETHER ARE GOD!!!
To me God is the combination of all the good that lives inside us all.
And here comes some more aspects of what I think that will drive you to believe that I am crazy;
When I use the description that God is created by us all, what I am talking about includes every single atom of the universe. Even though it is hard to understand how, I believe that every atom has a piece of knowledge. Along with that knowledge they have positive and negative aspects to them.
Through the use of these positive and negatives bits of knowledge within the atom, they then have the ability to communicate.
Then you put together atoms to the point of building a simple structure, and you continue building into more complex structures. Then when you combine and share quadrillions of tiny bits of information you get to living structures.
Now you build until you come to the most complex structure know by man; MAN!
Our brains become so complex that science, while able to map the human being from the very tip of our hair, to the cells that make up the bottom of our feet. They finally reach a point that they are unable to map or explain the "thing" that makes us work.
They can remove or replace most any part of a human, but they are unable to take all the parts from a human and create life!
God is the secret little piece of knowledge that man has no-explaination for, but is the secret to starting life.
Now for when I said that God is a combination of all of us, here is my meaning:
In order for God to exist in my mind and heart, he must be a part of every single thing in the universe.
Think about the Sant Claus phenominon, in order for Santa to know when every child is good or bad, asleep or awake, then Santa must be us the parents right?
Well to me God is that infinately small part of the atom that has a positive charge and that combined with all of the other positive charged atoms of the universe create a superior being.
That being could not exist without all of us from everywhere in the universe.
Not just for us here on earth.
Now you can start with that interpitation and show how with that much knowledge and power, that God was able to create man.
Then if you only want to believe in evolution you can show how this co-operation of each piece of knowledge combined to make dirt, then water, then mud, and then man.
We who believe in God, have to, because there would be no-way to explain that tiny little secret which allows for mud to become man.
Religion only reflects how man can feel goodness in his heart but cannot understand why. it also allows for the badness within man, and a way for our tresspasses to be forgiven.
But when it comes right down to it; religion is a concept only provided by man, not written by God.
We as humans have to share with others our feelings. What better way than organizing religion?
And that is what religion is to me, an organaztion. Not a very good thing either (in my opinion) when you take in the awful horrible things we have done in the name of religion.
NOW DON'T YOU WISH I WOULD HAVE STOPPED AT ANSWERING ONLY
QUESTION NUMBER ONE?




Love & Peace,
John

Why would posting your opinion's upset anyone?
Afterall are we not a forum for "venting" one's opinions.

When you say you need proof, is it something tangible that you seek? If so, what? There is plenty of proof of God's existence all around us and in the world today. For example, the first thing that comes to mind is the Bible. To some this may be nothing more than a historical texts full of stories and proverbs. But think about the fact that this is one of the oldest written documents on this earth, and think about all that it has survived throughout history to still be here today (and still one of the best-selling books in the world). The Bible was inspired by God and the only reason that it is still popular today is because of His divine intervention. Now, this is just one example of many that God does exists. There are a multitude of other things that prove that a Divine Creator/Being [God] exists, such as the presence of the Holy Spirit, the complexity of the human eye, or the fact that of all the planets in this solar system Earth is the only one that is capable of sustaining life.

No, I cannot give a first-hand account of what heaven is like, but I can certainly tell you what I have read in the book of Revelation about it. In order to embrace the whole idea of heaven and eternal life, you would first have to accept and embrace that the Bible is living proof of God's existence.

I agree that you were not being hypocritical. A hypocrite is someone who says one thing and does another. For example, if I condemn you for swearing and then 5 minutes later I am cursing at someone else then that would be hypocritical. IMO, you have every right to believe what you want to and to have your opinions of others beliefs.

Let me pose this question: Why is it that when people swear, they invoke the name of God before the curse word and not the name of another deity from another religion? What is it that is so "special" or "significant" about using this name?

*EDIT: Typo

This post has been edited by Rittnasty: Jan 31 2008, 05:21 PM

Mother Theresa dedicated her whole life to God, I guess you can call her a Jesus Freak. She had Doubts
and struggles, but stayed true God to the end of her life. I would call that commitment! She did great works
for humanity all inspired by the love of God and his word.

What is a regular Christian? I didn't know people who live in faith have to act a certain way or tone
down there level of commitment to Christ without being labeled. My pastor whom I grow up with gave
everything he had helping others, going to hospitals for the sick late at night, funerals, or just people
in some crisis all ours of the night. He put God above everything else in his life and God blessed him
not with money, but with awife of 40 years and 3 great sons. No one gets to decide or judge whats being
to "much" of a christian, or showing to much zeal for his or her faith. You either believe that jesus died
and rose from the dead for our sin's or you don't. God gives you free will as has been stated already.
It is your right to chose whatever you want and to believe in God or not.

Wolfeymole and to the other athiest in this forum: You are right, I have no proof that God exsist and
you have no proof that he doesn't!!

The topic of this forum is "Can you believe in God and not be religous". The only religon being put in to
question is christianity, WOW I'm shocked lol. The ACLU defends every religon in this country but
christianity, WOW i'm shocked again. If I was a muslim nobody but would make disrespectful and condesending
remarks about Islam, or if i was a Jew or Buddhist etc. Mention the name of Christ and people get angry.

Wolfeymole, if you don't like all this God talk, maybe you should find another forum.

Unjustjohn, I want you to think about the complexity of the atom's that you talked about in your post
which I enjoyed reading. Who created something that complex, was it Big-Bang, was it Dust-Cloud, or
maybe something higher John that you can't explain. I think you are a searcher and if you truly seek
God you will find him.

I respect everyone's opinion, even the one's I don't agree with. My prayer is that everyone would find
God and his love.

There are some really smart people in this forum and at thoughtvent period. I enjoy having intense,but
civilized discusions. Thanx to all of you!!!!!