I've borrowed a statement from another of our threads (Religion>Agnostic) and rather than take that particular thread 'off topic', thought I'd ask my question here.

The statement was (Quote) "The wife's area of responsibility lies in taking care of the home. This does not mean she is home bound, can't go outside and exists only to take care of and make babies. (Proverbs 31)" (Unquote).

Truly trying to understand something so I wonder if the above statement could be clarified, please.

Does this mean it's felt that while the woman is free to leave her home and she doesn't exist only to care for babies, caring for her home and children is her responsiblity and she should not work outside the home?

Perhaps in an ideal world either the father or the mother could choose to be the stay-at-home parent while the other works outside the home to support the family financially, but few families have this option. Surely this would not make them less of a Christian?

I don't know if you are married or have a beau, but when you guys get into a car, only one of you can hold the steering wheel at one time. The steering wheel is also placed not in the center of the dashboard but in front of the driver's seat. Some situations work better when ONLY ONE PERSON has the ultimate responsibility for the task at hand.

The ultimate responsibility to provide materially for the family falls on the father, and it's only the last few decades (after WWII) that this 1 income lifestyle has become difficult to maintain.

1 Timothy 5:8 (21st Century King James Version)
But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.

Does the Bible forbid women to work outside the home, no, no at all. Prov. 31:16 shows that at that time (10th Century B.C.E.) a good wife was one who had business savvy when doing real estate transactions.

Proverbs 31 (21st Century King James Version)
...a virtuous woman.... her price is far above rubies.
...worketh willingly with her hands.
...She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
...She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household and a portion to her maidens.
...She considereth a field and buyeth it; with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.

Buying a field sounds very much like a commercial business transaction.

So if a woman's worth is greater is she can contribute to providing financially to her household, wouldn't a man's worth be greater if he helped with the house, washed the dishes, help keeping the house clean, do laundry? Time spent together in activities like this does nothing but strengthen a loving couple's relationship.

And in the end, both parents are responsible for the education of the children in the commands and directions given to us by God.

Proverbs 1:8 (Today's New International Version)
Listen, my son, to your father's instruction
and do not forsake your mother's teaching.

I hope that helps.

This post has been edited by CrazyDwarf: Oct 17 2007, 01:31 AM

I agree with you there. The bible does place the husband as the head of the family, but it never says that husbands are to be tyrants of the house. I the book of Ephesians chapter 5 it says this:

21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. 24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.

25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.[b] 27 He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. 28 In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. 29 No one hates his own body but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. 30 And we are members of his body.

31 As the Scriptures say, “A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.”[c] 32 This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one. 33 So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

This passage is very clear. The husband is the head of the home and is responsible for the spiritual growth and the main financial and material support of the family and the education of the children. The wife's responsibility is primarily in the home but is not restricted to just the home. Notice verse 21? the emphasis is mine. This verse is the most often overlooked verse when dealing with the roles of the husband and the wife. to me this says we should consider our spouses thoughts and ideas when making important choices and defer to the one with the greater knowledge or the one with the most common sense regarding the choice at hand.


Seafox14

I would hate to think that being a Christian forces one to accept injunctions and rules written at the time and designed to fit a world over 2000 years ago, when many people worshipped springs and bulls, enjoyed watching men kill one another in the arena for sport, and never travelled more than two day's walk from their village.
This view of the place of women in society referred to above seems to have as much moral validity as the instructions about how to treat one's slaves in a kindly and just manner---no matter how sophisticly one dances around the text to soften the meaning in both examples.
I would find it extremely difficult to reconcile such views with what many consider the "true" teachings and good news of the Christ for ALL of "mankind."
Z

Unfortunately, in the Liberalized society that we've allowed American society to degenerate to, this is far from reality.

Today, it seems, as soon as a kid can walk and talk, the "parents" abdicate responsibility for them. But then, how can we expect these parents to take responsibility for their children when they were brought up without any active parenting, themselves?

When did career become more important than rearing one's own children? And the fact of the matter is that managing a household and raising children is a full-time responsibility. My own father worked long hours as a department head at the local textile mill. Every two weeks he'd bring home his paycheck, give it to my mother, and his part was done. My mother took care of all of the aspects of managing the household - the bills, groceries, etc. She was mediator and disciplinary committee for my brothers, sister, and me, although final sentencing on serious infractions was usually deferred until all parental authority could be empaneled (colloquially, "Wait 'til your father gets home").

I'm going to let everyone in on a little secret - most parents today would rather pick rutabagas for a quarter a bushel than manage the household. Rutabaga-picking would be easier, and more rewarding. Why do you think the men were always the ones to beat themselves to death in the mills, woodlots, fields and quarries? Because it was easier than the alternative.

To me the responsibilty of raising the children does not lie with the woman,it lies with both parents .
I am lucky enough to work and still have plenty of time to spend with my daughter,i take her to school and pick her up as much as possible and we try to spend as much time together as a family unit ,that does not stop me providing for my family,
and i don't expect my wife to do all the household work.A family to me is like a team ,you work hard for everyone else and things will go alright.
And now to my point
Religion does not have the right to dictate who does what,especially to say a womans place is at home .
Remember the bible was written by man(in my opinion before anyone disagrees).
Most men would not admit that it is the women that make them the person they are ,to me my wife makes me whole(sounds cheesy but true)i.e she always knows when things trouble me ,always knows when i have had a bad day and most of all always knows what to say to make me feel better about myself.
So too sum things up women have a role and so do men(in the family unit)and it does'nt matter who does what .
as at the end of the day you all want the same thing,to be happy

Yeah, but in biblical times, the primary responsibility was with the woman, and that certainly makes sense for that era.

Yipee, I feel like hugging both Zarathustra and mz30 – huge happy smile!!

JohnWho, when mentioning the Bible’s placement of both men and women into certain roles was appropriate when it was written, made me honestly wonder if it ever could have been appropriate. Especially when even now, all these years later, true Christians can differ in interpretation of what the Bible means regarding the role of a women.

For I too think it could only be a good thing if one parent was ‘driving the car’ to finance the family while the other parent stayed at home with the children, at least until they were of school age. On a personal level, I couldn’t care a whit whether the ‘driver of the car’ was the father or mother since I think of men and women, fathers and mothers being simply ‘people’ first and sexual gender or roles secondary, it’s as MattV says, picking rutabagas surely must be easier than being a full-time stay at home parent and whichever parent is best suited, the children can only benefit.

(On a personal note about rutabaga picking ... You’re oh so right! I loved being a mother but there were still days when the thought of picking rutabagas free all day would have seemed mighty appealing to me -).

Oh dear, SeaFox (you know this was coming, didn’t you ), I know you are not a tyrant to your wife but just reading the quotes from the Bible gave me the queasies.

(Quote) For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. 24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything. (Unqote).

I would no more submit to my husband in anything, let alone everything, than I would expect him to submit to me. We are partners, true partners in everything, and neither of us submit or are subservient to the other. And all these years later we are still madly in love.

Now, let’s take a Christian who is not like you and is not a kind man, and he too sees these verses within the Bible. So so so so many women have lived a life of hell right here on earth because a man thinks it is his Christian right to have his wife ‘submit to him in everything'. Eep!

And as for a “woman must respect her husband” – another huge sigh. For like love, respect can not be ordered, it must be earned and for myself, is far harder to earn than even love. Gentle smile.

Oh, dear - I missed my chance for a hug!

Nope, giving you a gentle hug too, JohnWho! After all, a man who can understand the various shades of 'gray' is surely worthy of a happy hug!

Ah, that's nice.

I've been seeing words like "partners", "responsibility", "team" - words that would readily apply to the families of my generation (I'm an old fart, remember?). Those words rarely apply to what is referred to as a "family" today. MZ30 said it best. Being a part of a family used to mean sharing the responsibilities and duties - not just between parents but among all family members. And along with that went the sharing of joys and sorrows, hopes and dreams, laughter and tears. It was the ability of people that would - and often did - clash to function as a whole. Each had strengths that could help to overcome others' weaknesses - everyone contributed, and there were no special rewards for doing what needed to be done.

You could get away with ticking someone off, but you never wanted to tick off someone's family!! Especially in the small towns, where one person's family could comprise half the population.

This post has been edited by MattV: Oct 17 2007, 11:19 PM

Agree 'MattV' coming from the 1940's era. Every member of the Family has set chores to do.And failure to do your allotted chores,us kids were in big trouble.What used to scare the hell out of us kids were the words,my Mother used to say if we misbehaved."Just you wait till your Father gets home" That used to work.LOL.
'MZ30' and 'Mara' and 'Z' said it well. It's a combined effort,regardless of the job which has to be done,if the Family is to stay as a united Family unit.
To even consider,even thinking about 1500 yr old ideas is ridiculous in my opinion.It's todays living conditions,we have to worry about. Our own common sense should prevail,not seeking help from some antiquated old Book.

Yes Mara. Knew the questions would come and don't mind them. The passage I quoted from Ephesians is one that has bee miss quoted and taken out of context so much by men that want to put women under their heel so many times. as I also stated this was done by ignoring verse 21. My wife and I have a very good married life and family life following that entire passage including the 21st verse. The passage:

21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

To me, and many pastors that I've talked to, this means that the husband an wife share equal responsibilities in the family life. when the husband has more knowledge or common sense that the wife that the wife should fallow his lead. when the wife has more knowledge or common sense, the husband should follow her lead. God originally meant for husbands and wifes to be equal partners (i.e. your wife at your side, not 2 steps behind you).


Hope this clears things up a bit.


Seafox14

Our social system, or at least our 'basic' family system seems to be falling apart, as both MattV and DSTM have mentioned - and I often wonder if it isn't, in part at least, because of the generally accepted roles of father/mother in a family or perhaps how a woman is still often thought of.

For instance, although I'm delighted to know that your personal belief system permits you to see one's wife as "equal partners", SeaFox (yipee!!), there are apparently so many other Christians who don't have the same enlightened outlook.

Think for the moment I'll leave the Old Testament alone because I blame it for a lot of the misery women have endured over the many centuries, simply because of words like "...thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee".

But an example from the New Testament ...

(New Testament)

1 Corinthians 11:3: "...Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and the head of Christ is God" ... and I think it's in 1 Peter 3:7 (?): that it says women are weaker than men/husbands".

So so so many religious leaders take passages such as this and, in turn, teach their followers that this is the literal intent of the Bible. If there could only be a way to only have tolerant, broad-minded religous leaders surely a woman's place within Christianity and the world in general would be far easier?