McCain is a warmongering jerk who is at best trying to restart a cold war with Russia or at worse trying to start a hot war with Russia over some dumbass incident in the Caucasus. On Friday Georgia started a military offensive to regain control of South Ossetia which has been conducting its own affairs since it broke away from Georgia in 1992. Many of the people in South Ossetia our sympathetic to Russia and would welcome Russian annexation to be united with their fellow bethren in North Ossetia. The people of South Ossetia have just as much right to break away from Georgia as Georgia had to break away from the former Soviet Union. If the South Ossetians wish to be annexed by Russia why should the United States government object? The United States has absolutely no vital security interest in this war between Russia and Georgia. If Russia were to annex South Ossetia and Abkhazia tommorow it would not makes a dimes worth difference to the lives of the American people. In fact if Russia were to wipe Georgia off the the face of the earth it would make no difference to the lives of American people.
I do not give a rat's ass about Georgia. I do not care if Russia annexes South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It will make absolutely no difference in my life. What will make a difference in my life and the lives of every American is if a new Cold War is started over a brush fire incident in the Caucasus that is of no vital security interest to the lives and freedom of the American people. And that is exactly what John McCain is attempting to do with his bellicose rhetoric directed at Putin and Russia. Whatever objections the United States government has with Russian actions in Georgia should be expressed privately not publicly. Under no circumstances should the United States government seek a UN Security Council Resolution condemning Russian "aggression" in Georgia. First, Russia was not the aggressor in this case. It was Georgia which started this whole sordid affair by thier aggression against the innocent men, women, and children of South Ossetia whose only "crime" is their with to be united with their fellow brethren in Russia. Second, seeking a UN Resolution against Russia is just pure political posturing on the part of McCain. McCain should know, unless he is a bigger idiot than I think he is, that Russia has a veto in the Security Council and such a a resolution would only serve the purpose of angering the Russians.
McCain lacks the judgement to needed to be President of the United States. He was wrong about Iraq presenting a security threat to the United States, and bears a large measure of the blame for involving the United States in what former Reagan National Security advisor, Lt. General William Odom, called the "greatest strategic diasaster in the history of the United States." He showed an extreme lack of judgement by favoring admission of Georgia and the Ukraine to NATO. If McCain had his way the United States might at this very moment be at war with Russia over Georgia. He also shows his lack of judgement by openly saying he thinks Russia should be kicked out of the G8. By far the most important relationship the United States has with any country is with Russia. Russia is the only country in the world that is capable of wiping the United States and the American People off the face of the earth. The number one priority of any President should be to maintain good relations with Russia. The United States Government should be willing to give the Russians a free hand in thier near abroad just as the Russians give the United States a free hand in South America. NATO should be disbanded and the United States should honor its pledge made to Russia after its government allowed the collapse of its empire not to seek military bases in former Warsaw Pact countries or former Republics of the recently disbanded Soviet Union. It is absolutely insane to risk nuclear war with Russia war or a restart of a new Cold War with Russia over some cruddy little country like Georgia.

[Moderator edit: moved thread to a more appropriate forum. Zarathustra]

That's odd -

isn't Obama pretty much now echoing what McCain said?

Maybe not the same words, but the same concept?




(Note - sorry, but I'm away and only have temp use of a PC, so I can't get quotes and links, but what I heard on TV tonight seemed like they were both saying the same things.)



I'm also curious - why aren't the warmongering jerks the ones who are actually waging war in Georgia right now?

Also, from what I've heard, this one may really be about the oil. (Follow the pipeline.)

Just some quick observations while I have a chance to look in on the board.

You assume because I attacked McCain that I support Obama. Actually I still support Dr. Ron Paul for President, and I consider the choice between McCain and Obama as the choice between warmonger (a) and warmonger (. You are quite correct that Obama is merely echoing McCain on the war between Russia and Georgia. Obama has already caved to AIPAC on Middle East Policy and again parrots McCain in stating that he will leave no option off the table when its comes to stopping Iran's IAEA safeguarded civilian nuclear power program up to and including using nukes to stop it.
On overall policy, especially when it comes to foriegn policy, McCain and Obama are in complete agreement. Both Obama and McCain support the American military's empire of bases across the world. Both Obama and McCain support an increase in the size of the military budget despite the fact that the United States government spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. Both Obama and McCain agree that the United States should police the world and make the Middle East safe for the Israeli's government nuclear monopoly in the Middle East no matter how many innocent Persian men, women, and children they have to nuke in the process. The differences (to the extent they exist at all) between Obama and McCain are largely tactical. Obama wants to wind down the war in Iraq so has to concentrate US military power on murdering the people of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran. McCain thinks the United States military should continue murdering the innocent people in Iraq as well as Afghanistan and would favor murdering millions of Persians if the Iranian government does not follow the dictates of the imperial government in the District of Criminals and holt its perfectly legal civilian nuclear power program. The American people do not have the choice of no murder and no war. We cannot choose a candidate who would dismantle the American Empire of bases, stop waging endless wars on the people of the Middle East to make the that sad region of the world safe for Israel's nuclear monopoly and the Likud Party's vision of a greater Israel. The American people cannot choose a candidate who will cut and cut deeply the obscene amount of money the US government spends on the military. In other words I consider the choice between McCain and Obama as no choice at all.

Finally, the biggest warmongering jerk in the Russia/ Georgia war is the President of Georgia. He is the one who started this whole bloody business by launching a war of aggression against the innocent people of South Ossetia because they were guilty of the crime of wanting to be a part of Russia so they can be united with thier fellow bethren in North Ossetia. I think we will both agree there is a world of difference between those who start a war (like the President of Georgia) and those who respond to the aggressive war like Prime Minister Putin. It should be noted there are a number of Russian nationals in South Ossetia. I can just imagine what the reaction of the American people would be if, let us say, the Iranians, launched a full scale military assault on a province in Iran inhabited by a number of American nationals. I should say at this point that it would be in the best interests for all parties involved, especially the South Ossetians because they are caught up in the middle of the war zone, for an immediate end to all hostilities. The Georgia government claims that they have withdrawn from South Ossetia and declared a unilateral cease fire yet I continue to hear that the Georgia military is continuing to engage in military operations in South Ossetia. Further, the Russians called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council in which they sponsored a resolution that would call for an immediate end to all hostilities and for both sides to agree that the use of force or violence would not be used to solve the crisis in South Ossetia. This Russian resolution was vetoed by the United States at the request of the Georgian government.

All this is beside the point, however. It will make absolutely no difference to the American people if Russia annexes South Ossetia and Abkhazia or in a fit of revenge take over all over Georgia. Niether the lives nor the liberties of the American people are at stake in this conflict, therefore, the United States government should stay out of it. To the extent that the American government has concerns with Russian policy in Georgia those concerns should be expressed privately. It is the hieght of stupidity and insanity to risk starting another cold war or even in a worse case scenario a hot war with Russia over a region of the world that was recently dominated by Russia and in which the United States has no legitimate security interest.

This post has been edited by Winston Smith: Aug 11 2008, 09:51 PM

No.

Just pointing out the similarity in their responses.

Has Ron Paul made a statement regarding the situation in Georgia?



Only have a moment, but I've noticed that humanity in general is somewhat a "war mongering" species.

Dr. Paul has not made a statement on the Russia/Georgia conflict as far as I know. His wife, who he has been married to for over 50 years is in the critical care unit in the hospital. I hope everyone on this forum will pray that she recovers quickly and can be united with her loving husband.