Being a 55 year old--life-long republican, & continually voting along republican lines--I am now up against a stone wall.

To all you democrats that may be gleaming that I am against President Bush's policies, forget it. I believe that one day in the future, President Bush will be deemed as one of the greatest Presidents in U.S. history. He has stood by what he believed, regardless of his national approval rating. His greatest achievement will be defending this country against terrorism. Of which, past Presidents ignored, which in turn resulted in 9/11. During his 8 year term he has lived his life, every day, in order to protect this country. Since 9/11, we have not been attacked again, by very determined Islamic radicals. I hope the next President will be able to achieve the same record.

I am thouroughly discouraged with the current republican front runners.

John McCain: I was O.K. with John McCain's going to the other side on occasion, for disagreement with republicans. "Meaning tax cuts for the ultra wealthy in this country." However, during the last republican debate when he propped up a lie regarding Mitt Romney's "wanting a time table on departure of Iraq", it made me ill to my stomach. I cannot vote for a person who can look the American public in the face, & tell a bold face lie. "That reminds me of someone else, 10 or so years ago that occupied the White House."

Mitt Romney: I was O.K. with Mitt Romney's flip-flopping on issues of pro-choice or pro-life, & I was akin & understood of what he was saying. Especially understanding his economic & foreign policies. My disagreement with him is: The mass deportation of 12 million illegals in this country, mostly of whom are from Mexico. Being white, born & raised in the southwest of this country, I can think of nothing else that is so "heartless & cruel." The gestapo tactics of breaking down doors of illegals in this country, many of whom, have raised families here, bought homes here, & integrated very well into our communities. To send them back to nothing, is unrealistic & an aboration to what the sole of this country is, & what this country was founded upon.

What astounds me most, is that they try & compare themselves with Ronald Reagan. "McCain & Romney stating they're more like him, than the other."

To all you youngsters who may be reading this post. These two candidates along with the ultra-right wing talking heads of the republican party are nothing like Ronald Reagan. (This includes Rush Limbaugh & Shawn Hannity, whom claim to be Reagan conservatives.) Ronald Reagan had compassion for all, including illegals, & would never prop up a lie in order to pursue his own personal political gain.

I truly regret that the republican party, has somewhere along the line, lost the core values of Ronald Reagan. This year I will not be voting for a republican presidential candidate.

This post has been edited by Orea: Feb 3 2008, 12:42 AM

I am a long time Reagan fan, but I have to disagree with this statement. It was not compassion that drove the last amnisty program - it was political pressure.

McCain wants to bow to the same pressure. Illegal immigration will go through the roof if McCain/Obama/Clinton is allowed to become President. This will become a country where all you have to do is get your feet on American soil and you're on "easy street". That has to end!

Yes, I know some families may have many hardships because of this stand, but it has to stop somewhere.

We both agree that a fence needs to be built. But, I beleive that it is unrealistic to assume that we would be able to round up 12 million illegals & send them back. They aren't going to volunteer for departure. I live in the southwest of this country & realise the magnitude of illegals crossing the border. I believe the fine is a much more realistic approach to the problem, then along with them being put at the back of the line for a pathway to citizenship.

One of the main problems with our immigration system, is it is much to hard to get on a pathway to citizenship, in the first place. For example: We know a professor from Columbia. Very much able to support herself & her family. She was legally brought to the United States on a visa, because her father too, was a professor in this country. He brought her over. This was more than 20 years ago. She told me that today, any person wanting a visa, needs to show that a family member living here, earns at least 50 thousand dollars per year. After living & working in the United States, it still took her 13 years to finally become a citizen of the United States. And she did everything "legally".

So things definitely need to change within our immigration policies. There's not too many family members from Mexico who already live here legally that make $50,000 per year.

This post has been edited by Orea: Feb 4 2008, 12:20 AM

I am thouroughly discouraged with the current republican front runners.

I understand completely, if I were a Republican I'd feel the same way



To all you youngsters who may be reading this post. These two candidates along with the ultra-right wing talking heads of the republican party are nothing like Ronald Reagan. (This includes Rush Limbaugh & Shawn Hannity, whom claim to be Reagan conservatives.) Ronald Reagan had compassion for all, including illegals, & would never prop up a lie in order to pursue his own personal political gain.

Compassion? Top 5% get substantially richer while the bottom 5% got poorer than in any other time in history. Where is the compassion in that? If said it before and I'll say it again, Reagan to me is an overrated Prez who was made to look better(prob just like Clinton) because of his phenominal speaking abilities. Though, I guess in the grand scheme of thing, public speaking is prob about 80% of the job, so in that case, Reagan and Clinton are top 5 ever

{{{But, I beleive that it is unrealistic to assume that we would be able to round up 12 million illegals & send them back. }}}

Once more, who wants to round them up??? Just enforce the laws and they will not be able to find employment and will go back on their own. Problem solved. Now please tell me whats wrong with that???

{{They aren't going to volunteer for departure}}

They will if there are no jobs, no schools for their children, no social services, and no free rides where doctors and hospitals are concerned.

{{I believe the fine is a much more realistic approach to the problem, then along with them being put at the back of the line for a pathway to citizenship.}}

Again, rewarding them for breaking the law. Do you want to do the same for those that break into your home and steal you blind??? That's what they are doing to this nation and you want to reward them for it!!!

{{{One of the main problems with our immigration system, is it is much to hard to get on a pathway to citizenship,}}

How many people do you think this nation can assimilate a year??? And I think you need to recheck your figures, there's institutions that say we have better than 30 million illegals in this nation now. That's 1 out of ever 10 people and the number keeps raising daily and in part that's because of people like you.

{{{There's not too many family members from Mexico who already live here legally that make $50,000 per year.}}

And with an average $11,000 per year per student and an average of 4 children per illegal family that's $44,000 a year we spend per year to put their children through school. That does NOT take into account what we spend per year on social services and NO, the little taxes they pay does not EVEN began to cover the cost. So why don't you start adding up the cost per family of the illegal aliens and come back and we will discuss your position a little further.

Once more, who wants to round them up??? Just enforce the laws and they will not be able to find employment and will go back on their own. Problem solved. Now please tell me whats wrong with that???

Wonder how you would have felt if someone said that to your family members when they came here as immigrants. I firmly believe that the only people who should truly decide on immigration are Native Americans just like I believe the only people who should have voice in abortion are women.

{{{Top 5% get substantially richer }}

The top 5% pay what percentage of the taxes???

{{{the bottom 5% got poorer }}}

The bottom 5% pay no taxes at all and live off those that do work and you want to cry about it??? You want to take from the productive to give to the non productive and expect the productive to stay productive??? Hey, where is the justice in this??? The "POOR" in this nation are considered "RICH" by the majority of other nations and yet you want to take more away from those that earn their wealth.

Let's see, since one of my ancestors was the first to buy Capawack (Alias Martha's Vineyard) in 1637, I would say the Bureau of Immigration wasn't even a gleam in anyone's eye. My father's side came in 1652. Hey, some of the Native Americans (my wife would rake you over the coals for calling her a name like that) TRIED to grow crops with some of my ancestors but failed to get the job done. Oh, by the way, my wife and 6 daughters would tell you that your all wet on the abortion issue. They feel that it's everybody's business.

So because your wife and daughters feel that way, I should change my thought process? As far as the bureau of Immigration, thats a EUROPEAN starting point. The natives to this land didn't have one cause they never saw what genocide was coming. Again, you answered nothing in that entire post, but I've learned that debating you is an absolute waste of time cause you've gone so far to the right that you'll never return

Because they are poor means they are non-productive, and because they are rich means they're productive? What world do you live in? I've met poor people who work harder than you, and I've met rich kids born into money that are the laziest people on the planet. And you know what, the top 5% SHOULD pay more taxes. How much money is enough money Samuel? How much do you need before you could be fine? You make 5 mill a year, you pay even 2 mill of that(which they dont), you still got 3 mill. Not enough for you?

And by the way, the "POOR" in European countries are doing alot better than those in E. St Louis, Detroit, and many other cities. But you'd actually had to have been poor to understand that, so stick y=to what you have experience in, not something you don't(like for example, actually being pregnant, which is why I don't think I have any say in the debate on abortion)

Hey, some of the Native Americans (my wife would rake you over the coals for calling her a name like that) TRIED to grow crops with some of my ancestors but failed to get the job done.

I'm so glad that your ancestors "TRIED" to grow crops with the natives on their land. Wow, your so giving! So I guess if they couldn't grow the crops, then that gave the Europeans the right to just kill them and take their land? Boy, that sounds very Jesus-like, I'm sure he would have done that if he were here then.

Also, look at the past 20 years of the sides candidates. Reagan was prob the last good candidate the party is had.

Rep - Bush sr, Dole, Bush jr, and McCain

Dem - Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, and Hillary Clinton

If your a Dem, then chances are your thrilled with your parties nominees over the past 20, if your a Rep, esp a true Conservative, probably not so much

You're speaking of fining employers who hire illegals. Which again is impossible to do. The majority of illegals have forged documents. An employer hiring someone whom he believes has all the proper documents, should not be penalized. This again, is the direct failure of our immigration system to make visa's, & other i.d's. tamper proof. Illegals were able to buy drivers licenses from corrupt state officials in California, working at the DMV. They were caught on video doing this a couple of years ago. Buy an American identity for $1500--$2000.

The only feasible solution, is to secure the border. You mention the cost to our schools, hospitals, etc. I agree the cost is staggering.

But, the cost of rounding up 12 million illegals that don't want to go back, would cost even more. We would need special investigators, a million man police force, mass transportation costs to send them back to where-ever.

Then what would you do with illegals who own homes in the United States? Would you buy those homes back from them, or would you just confiscate them? Americans would not stand for confiscation of property, therefore, we would add billions of dollars to the already billions we would spend on locating, prosecuting & sending them to their home countries.

The kids that were born in the U.S. is another major obstacle. Many illegals have had children born in this country. Therefore, making the children legal U.S. citizens. Most of these children have been raised in our American culture, & only speak English. Are we to take the kids who are "legal" U.S. citizens, & send the illegal parents back? Therefore, turning legal U.S. children into orfans. Who's going to pay for their care, when their illegal parents are sent back? WE ARE!

Americans would never punish innocent children, over the illegal activities of their parents, PERIOD.

I think it's high time, people like you get realistic with what can be done, & it certainly is not your way.

This post has been edited by Orea: Feb 19 2008, 01:18 AM

Just an observation but Bush Sr. was a winner, Dole a loser, Bush Jr. a winner and McCain we don't know.

Clinton was a winner, Gore a loser, Kerry a loser, and either Obama or Hillary will be a loser and the other we don't know.

I'm not so sure that the Democrats are that thrilled with all the losers they've brought forward at all.

Heck, it even looks like it would be prudent to change the thread to "Democorat Party in disarray!"



Actually, I'm just pointing out how easy it is to take the same information and twist it to portray whatever one wants it to say. In my opinion, both Parties are having some serious problems.

McCain's nomination might be what the GOP needs, since he apparently attracts moderate independents; the GOP has been hijacked by the religious extreme right and is slowly becoming less right-centrist. Not to mention it has turned its back on minorities. Without the support of moderates and independents, it cannot win national elections.
Z